Watch our formal launch
- 04 October 2021
Our launch event, hosted by BBC presenter Clare English, featured a welcome from our Chair Jim Martin, an overview of ESS from our Interim CEO Brendan Callaghan, and a panel discussion which included two of our Board members, Marie Fallon and Annalisa Savaresi, alongside Jonathan Hall (National Farmers’ Union of Scotland), Dr Deborah Long (Scottish Environmental LINK), and Dr Shivali Fifield (Environmental Rights Centre for Scotland).
You can watch a video of the event below or at the following link: The Launch of Environmental Standards Scotland, and an introduction to the work of ESS from our CEO, Brendan Callaghan, here: Introduction to ESS
Video Transcript
0:00 explain what the organization is and uh introduce you to some of the
0:06 senior members as well we’ll also tell you what the organization is not what it’ll do and what its powers will be
0:12 we’ve got a raft of fascinating well-informed people to introduce you to but first let’s meet the chair and
0:17 members of the senior team at ess they’re going to set out their stall talk about what ess will be doing and
0:23 the kinds of relationships they’ll be seeking with you the stakeholders this is in short the start of a
0:30 meaningful and we hope fruitful conversation between us
0:35 after meeting the ess senior squad we will have what promises to be an interesting panel discussion with a
0:41 number of representatives from ess and organizations across the sector
0:46 but before we go any further we’re going to hear from jim martin chair of ess who will extend welcome to you all and set
0:53 the scene for this morning’s event and following on from jim we have ess interim chief executive brenson callahan
1:00 who’ll tell us a bit more about the ess’s approach and how it’s going to operate now over to you jim
1:07 thanks welcome to everyone to the launch of environmental slanted scotland
1:12 it’s so encouraging that over 100 people have signed up to be here this morning given all of their time to hear what
1:18 we’re about i’m going to be brief because i want to leave as much time as possible for others to ask questions and to discuss
1:25 what is we’re about but i want to give just a quick overview so ess was created to fill the
1:31 environmental governance gap that was caused by brexit i think we all know that so everyone also knows what a critical
1:37 time it is for us all and as claire said we’re facing major challenges in biodiversity decline on climate change
1:44 now ess we intend to play our part to help scotland meet these challenges head on
1:51 i want to stress and i can’t stress strongly enough that we will be an independent body
1:56 we’re not a government body we will be independent and we’ll call things as we see it
2:02 well what will we do we will scrutinize and monitor the actions of our public bodies
2:08 including the scottish government and all its agencies we will use our powers to secure
2:14 compliance with environmental laws and we’ll also assess the effectiveness of
2:20 environmental laws but we’ll also look beyond scotland and we’ll test whether scotland is
2:26 keeping pace internationally particularly with the european union
2:31 and how we will go about our work is set out in our interim strategy which we are publishing today and which
2:37 brendan callahan will talk you through in a moment or two but we need your input on this interim
2:44 strategy to help inform our full strategy which we intend to consult on over the next few months and publish
2:51 next year i’m determined that we won’t be a top-down organization
2:58 we’re going to be guided by the representations that are made to us by the general public and by organizations
3:05 operating in the field whether they be ngos or community organizations but we’ll also
3:11 create investigations on our own initiative and we’ll also monitor and challenge
3:17 data which is published by our public bodies i’m also committed the ess will publish
3:24 as much as we can about how we’re going about a business and what we’re looking at
3:30 so that the public can see and understand what it is that we’re about
3:36 so we’re open for business today less than 10 months since we’re given the green light by
3:41 parliament to begin our preparations and i will a great debt to our transition team and to our board for getting us to
3:48 this point we don’t hear any more from me so brendan would you like to talk people
3:55 through our interim strategy thank you jim i’ll give that a go let me just bring my presentation up um
4:07 just get that started okay um good morning everyone and thanks
4:14 for joining us today my name’s brendan callahan and i’m the interim chief executive for
4:20 environmental standards scotland the creation of environmental standards scotland comes at a critical time you’ve
4:26 already heard claire mention the twin crisis of climate change and nature decline and we’re in the run-up to two
4:33 cops we’re here to help scotland’s ambitions for the environment and to help our communities benefit from a high
4:40 quality environment we’ll do this through our work to ensure that environmental laws are effective
4:46 and complied with we have a range of powers to scrutinize public authorities and resolve issues
4:52 related to all aspects of environmental law we’ve been established by new scottish
4:58 legislation which received royal assent earlier this year and we’re here to fill this gap in
5:05 oversight and governance that was created by brexit as jim said we’re independent from
5:10 scottish ministers and we’ll be reporting and accountable to the scottish parliament
5:16 we’re directed by a chair jim you’ve already heard from our board who will be speaking later and we’re building a team of just over
5:23 20. lots of people have helped us to get to this point but i’d particularly like to thank the transition team of rebecca
5:30 neil and jamie that jim mentioned over the last nine months they’ve put in
5:35 place the policies procedures and corporate services that we need to function as a brand new organization
5:45 a little bit of our strategic approach our arena is broad and covers
5:51 all public authorities and almost all aspects of the environment and environmental protection
5:56 we can investigate matters on our own initiative or in response to the concerns of others
6:03 we cover everything from the built environment that people experience where they live and work to scotland’s remote
6:10 wild and special protected habitats both land and marine today
6:15 we’ve published an interim strategic plan which sets out how we will operate as a brand new organization and how we
6:22 plan to take on this challenge this graphic shows the building blocks for our strategic approach
6:29 we’ve structured our strategic plan around our functions and the key outcomes we want to deliver rather than
6:36 around current environmental priorities or themes we’ve taken this approach because it
6:41 will be through engaging with others and monitoring performance that we identify the most important environmental issues
6:47 to focus on our approach is informed by our values and principles that guide all that we do
6:55 i’ll cover approach to delivering these key outcomes over the next few slides
7:02 so firstly how we’re going to engage and communicate with people we’ll be engaging widely to talk to
7:08 people about our role and consult on our approach this will also help us to be well
7:14 informed about environmental concerns we’ve started to map out relationships
7:20 with a wide range of organizations to ensure we work together effectively and avoid overlaps
7:26 there will be many opportunities for working in partnership and collaborating such as with the climate change
7:31 committee and the office of of environmental protection our sister body who i see are represented here today
7:38 in other cases it will be about having clear boundaries so that people know who is best placed to help them with an
7:44 environmental concern we are open to anyone raising a concern
7:49 with us about compliance or the effectiveness of law this is called making a representation
7:56 these do need to be focused on the role of a public authority as we’re not a complaints body and we can’t take
8:03 compliance action in relation to individual cases but where individual cases show a wider
8:09 pattern of failure we will look at the underlying environmental issues and as jim said we’ll keep people
8:16 informed as we consider and investigate their concerns and we’ll also be open to receiving and
8:22 considering environmental information or evidence from anyone even if that’s not in the form of a representation
8:30 we will publish reports about the issues that we’ve investigated and we will keep people informed more generally about our
8:36 work for example through updates and sharing our forward work program setting out the issues that we’ll be considering
8:44 this will provide opportunities for people to engage with us for example by providing evidence or
8:49 example on matters that we’re actively considering
8:57 we want to be driven by our work to be driven by a detailed understanding of the environmental issues in scotland and
9:03 by the analysis of performance against environmental standards and targets
9:09 so as well as receiving representations we will examine published data and evidence to identify areas where the law
9:15 is not being effective we’ll draw on a wide range of environmental data such as the european
9:22 state of the environment report and monitoring for the scottish government environmental strategy as well as
9:28 research and reporting on of all manner we’ll take a proactive approach to
9:35 interrogating this information and we’ll work with partners to fill knowledge gaps and identify areas of concern
9:42 this will involve undertaking critical analysis on environmental performance so we can
9:48 understand how this is changing and the reasons for it horizon scanning and monitoring
9:54 scientific and policy developments and court rulings in the uk and in the eu will help us to learn from experience
10:01 elsewhere and factor this into our work to do all of this we are establishing a
10:06 small team of specialist analysts data and science experts
10:16 as will be a small organization with a broad remit we’ll need to target our efforts and resources carefully
10:23 so it’s important that we prioritize and investigate the most important matters of concern
10:29 and that we focus where we’re able to identify action needed to rectify problems
10:36 when a matter is brought to us we will undertake a preliminary review to determine whether it’s suitable for
10:41 investigating some representations may trigger an immediate investigation because of their
10:46 significance or urgency more commonly evidence from representations will be combined with our monitoring and
10:52 evaluation work to identify the priority issues that we would investigate
10:58 when we’re investigating a matter we will contact the public authorities concerned to inform them and offer them
11:04 the opportunity to clarify any aspects the investigation will involve gathering
11:10 information to determine the facts of the matter and understand the processes and events that led to the issue arising
11:16 we will often need to seek advice from experts as we won’t have the internal expertise on everything
11:23 once we’ve concluded an investigation public authorities will be able to comment on our proposed conclusions
11:29 including the actions we feel are necessary to address address the issue at this stage we would discuss with the
11:35 authority whether they are able to commit to the actions where they’re able to do this that would enable us to resolve informally without
11:42 the use of our enforcement procedures
11:49 we do have a range of legal powers to secure compliance and bring about improvements to the
11:55 effectiveness of law this diagram provides an overview of our investigation and compliance processes
12:02 the process starts at 12 o’clock either as a result of a representation or an issue being identified through our
12:08 monitoring ess and the public authorities are expected to work together to swiftly
12:15 resolve concerns we will therefore always seek to engage with the public authorities to try to
12:21 resolve matters informally agreeing remedial remedial action and solutions in this
12:27 way will often be quicker and more cost effective however when this isn’t possible within
12:33 a reasonable time we will use the statutory powers available to us to prevent further harm and reduce the
12:39 risks to the environment of public health we have three main enforcement tools
12:44 set out in the in the legislation we’re able to issue compliance notices probably for more straightforward
12:50 matters where their immediate actions are clear and it’s it’s one or a small number of of public authorities
12:57 we we can produce improvement reports which we would lay before parliament and provide to the scottish government who
13:03 would be required to prepare an improvement plan these are more likely to be used for more systematic issues or
13:09 where there’s multiple authorities involved we can also take issues to the court either to press home or compliance
13:15 notices or to seek a judicial review where an issue is serious and urgent
13:21 where we’ve taken action to show compliance ensure compliance we will continue to monitor these issues and
13:27 make sure that changes are implemented and take effect
13:34 so just to summarize we’re here to monitor environmental performance improve compliance and the effectiveness
13:41 of environmental law we’re independent and focused on the role of public authorities we have new
13:46 powers to secure improvements we will work collaboratively and seek to secure improvements informally wherever
13:53 possible and we want to hear about environmental concerns we still have a lot to do to fully
14:00 establish ourselves and grow our capacity as an effective scrutiny body we would welcome feedback on our interim
14:06 strategic plan we’ll also shortly set out a program of events for us to engage with a broad
14:12 range of stakeholders and we look forward to meeting and discussing a role with many of you thank you very much
14:18 and thank you very much brendan so it’s going to be a small but agile new body we’re talking about here jim’s pledge as
14:24 well not a top-down organization either engaged communicating and informing
14:31 along the way so lots to talk about we’re going to have a panel discussion now uh we’re delighted to be joined by a
14:37 group of highly knowledgeable and experienced individuals all of whom share a real passion for improving
14:43 environmental regulation and it is so important just now um before i get them to introduce themselves jim is the quiet
14:50 man he will never actually say what he’s got under his belt but i should sorry jim this is going to make you blush but
14:56 just to let you know the caliber of the people that are involved in this body jim’s had a wide-ranging career and in
15:02 public service serving as a scottish public services ombudsman for eight years at the police comm complaints
15:08 commissioner for scotland he is currently chair of the scottish legal complaints commissions who was general
15:13 secretary of the eis i thought i knew that name from somewhere jim’s not going to take part in the panel but it’s over
15:19 to the panel now and i would like you to introduce yourselves um we’ve met brendan so i don’t know why
15:26 don’t we start with you marie let’s um hear a bit about you and then we’ll take it from there
15:31 thank you claire i’m marie fallon and uh i guess you want to know why am i here
15:36 well it goes back to when i was a young girl 16 years old sitting in the school library and i read a book by somebody
15:42 called rachel carlson who was samuel at that time because it was very much about silence spring and about environmental
15:49 damage and that really set my path for being involved in the environment
15:54 i’ve got a 30-year career working in various elements of the environmental policy regulation and implementation
16:01 and for me it’s really important that environmental law exists because without law and legislation things don’t happen
16:09 but also there are times when the law on legislation isn’t fit for purpose because i my latter career in the
16:16 regulatory role i often saw that the law didn’t really give us the tooth to be able to deal
16:21 with an environmental issue effectively so one of the things that drew me to working with environmental standards
16:28 scotland was the ability to really improve the law and make things better because now it’s such an important time
16:33 we all have seen our young people talking about the environment and whether it’s the climate
16:39 change or the biodiversity uh situation it’s significant and i’m really proud to
16:46 be a member of the board and be able to take forward scotland’s environment and protect it for the future
16:53 thanks marie let’s move on to you anna-lysa tell us a little bit about yourself
16:58 hello everyone i’m an environmental lawyer and an academic i work with environmental law for 20
17:04 years and i now sit on the board of ess i relish the opportunity to establish
17:10 this new body watching over the shoulder of public authorities to ensure that environmental law in
17:16 scotland is properly enforced and effective so my hope and wish is to deliver on
17:23 this important agenda and fully exploit the powers we’ve been given and held the bridge enforcement gap that
17:29 affects the environmental governance in scotland thank you very much anna-lysa let’s move on to you johnny hello
17:38 can you hear us johnny good morning yes good morning everyone my name is johnny hall and i’m the director of policy with
17:45 nfu scotland therefore representing the interests of farmers and crofters across across the country
17:51 um clearly farming and crafting have a very clear interest and stake in in the
17:56 environment from biodiversity whether it’s habitats landscapes species and how
18:02 we manage them uh through to air and water and indeed soil quality and all such things related to those
18:08 things and not least of course climate and the expectation on and the responsibility on our shoulders to
18:13 deliver more in terms of climate ambitions and so on um farming and crafting is swathed in
18:20 environmental regulation but also carries huge environmental responsibility in how it goes about its
18:26 day-to-day actions and response and duties so the development of environmental
18:32 standards scotland is an important one for us but clearly we’re a sector of uh the economy and a major land use in
18:38 scotland that has always been governed but until recently that govern governance has usually come from the
18:44 european commission in one form or another uh through the channels of scottish government and into
18:50 the agencies so the role of ess is going to be really quite critical
18:55 to to how we engage and how we deliver for scotland’s environment and in particular
19:00 i want to see us working with ess and the agencies of government and government itself to deliver better
19:07 regulation around the environment that enables uh those with tasks with the responsibility of
19:13 delivering for the environment to do so uh not in a confused state and not even
19:18 just in a compliance state but in a way that champions the environment and takes our cred credibility and
19:25 credentials forward in that respect that means in my opinion that we need to
19:30 look at regulation we need to change it from just being about enforcement to being about awareness raising
19:36 information and advice and if you look at the work that super have done for example over recent years i think it’s been exemplary in terms of
19:43 engaging with farmers and crafters as to how best we can deliver on water quality in particular
19:48 so in that respect i’m really interested i’d also draw a wee note of caution
19:53 around how we keep pace with the eu on the one hand uh but also how do we align
19:59 ourselves with the rest of the uk on the other in terms of environmental regulation which fundamentally might
20:05 then have an impact or undermine even uh the functioning of the uk internal
20:11 market and we’re already starting to see certain tensions appear between different regular approaches across the
20:16 uk so an interesting time not half you took the words right out of my mouth let’s move along to shivali hello tell
20:23 us about yourself hello everyone i’m shivali i’m the chief
20:28 officer for the environmental rights center for scotland we were established in january 2020 by scottish environment
20:35 link to a knowledge legal capacity gap within the environmental ngo sector
20:41 and support communities of place and interest to challenge poor environmental decision making or lawful action
20:49 now we’re fully independent from link and after a pilot last year we launched our free advice service on public
20:54 interest environmental law in june and since june we’ve already had 28
20:59 inquiries and we’re building an evidence base of infringements enforcement gaps and areas
21:06 desperately needing rules to advance environmental justice and this includes just a small number of
21:11 examples um lack of sufficient regulation on river pollution sewage sludge and marine conservation
21:18 i could go on but i’ve only got a minute and a half so given how um ess was formed by the
21:24 continuity act and you’ve already mentioned this to partly address the gaps in environmental governance
21:29 arising from brexit we hope that between us working together we can provide scotland with the
21:36 conscience and policing needed to protect and improve scotland’s environment
21:42 so our hope for environmental standards scotland is that we have a robust body as the resources and skills
21:49 to listen to citizens concerns fully investigate breaches and the
21:55 powers to forcefully regulate the regulators and hold public authorities to account on the environment
22:01 we at the environmental rights center for scotland we’re looking forward to acting as the terrier
22:07 at ess’s ankles yapping and snapping if needs be to ensure that you do just that thank you
22:14 you’ve been warned you’ve been warned let’s hop over to deborah hello deborah
22:20 hey everyone i’m deborah long and i’m chief officer at scottish environment link link is the network for
22:26 environmental ngos including elcs and all our all our members work in scotland
22:32 and we work together to be the voice for scotland’s environment i am delighted to be here today i see
22:38 the launch of ess as an important and really crucial step towards protecting
22:44 scotland’s environment and enabling scotland’s people to stand up for it after brexit when we lost access to the
22:51 european court of justice and as environmental legislation is rewritten into scots law this marks a really
22:57 significant moment ess now in fact has performed the job both of the european court of justice
23:04 and of the commission link’s vision is and always has been that everyone who lives in scotland has
23:10 access to a healthy unpolluted biodiverse environment resilient to
23:15 change and able to support community well-being through easy access to nature
23:21 nature’s got no voice and we’re looking for ess to be another voice for nature
23:27 in terms of the sorts of tasks we see coming up the climate and nature emergencies are inextricably linked we
23:33 can’t solve one without solving the other and scotland has to raise its game to protect our environment and in doing
23:40 so meet our current climate targets and the nature targets that we know will be coming at cop15
23:46 it’s been a bit forgotten cop 15 but it opens in october this month a full month before cop 26 and it features the
23:54 edinburgh declaration which is led by the scottish government which calls for governments like ours
23:59 cities and local authorities to work together to restore biodiversity ess has
24:05 a role in ensuring that we deliver on the edinburgh declaration here in scotland we’re also looking to ess to ensure that
24:12 scotland keeps pace with europe and truly is a leader on climate action and biodiversity restoration
24:20 if ess is to be the success we want it to be it needs to be a watchdog and i’m going to take that metaphor a little bit
24:25 further i see it a bit like a retriever able to protect what we have pursue what
24:32 we haven’t and catch lame ducks when needed thanks very much very nice okay and brendan we’ve met you
24:38 but tell us a little bit about yourself and then we will move on to some questions
24:44 okay thanks claire yeah well i i mean i started off life as a forester and managing land and forests
24:52 in scotland in england and i so i’ve my passion for the environment comes from
24:57 my role and understanding the potential of sustainable land management and forestry management to contribute to our
25:03 natural resources the quality of our environments and our habitats and before that i did ecological science
25:09 at university i started off as an ecologist in in fact um but that that so
25:15 when the opportunity arose for me to move in this direction and uh build on
25:20 my more recent role as a regulator in scotland prior prior to helping jim with the setup here i was
25:26 the the lead operational lead for scottish forestry regulating forestry across
25:32 scotland and uh i think some people were quite pleased to see me take the role and bring a pragmatic understanding
25:38 approach but i’m certainly listening to what deborah and chevalie is saying about the need to be a a tech or you’re
25:44 going to be a terrier but we’re going to be yeah we’re we’re going to be the retriever
25:49 good luck with those ankles that’s all i’m saying right you’ve met the team now you know where they’re coming from and
25:55 we’re going to start with a question from robbie carnahan director of sustainable growth nature scott and the
26:00 question to you brendan i think is have you got an early early ideas or indications suggestions as to which
26:07 areas esa should be focusing efforts on
26:14 oh you’re mute brendan you’re on mute someone had to um no we consciously
26:22 consciously haven’t set out a list of priorities at this point um
26:28 as we really want to be able to respond to the representation receive and we’re just starting our monitoring work um
26:36 so i mean our program will be very much driven by prioritized representation and
26:41 what’s thrown up by our own evaluation and board discussions um
26:47 obviously you’ve heard today from chevali and others and we’ve been hearing as we’ve been talking to um
26:53 external organizations and non-government bodies yeah lots of areas of interest and lots of areas of concern
27:00 but we’re really we’ve got we’ve got to synthesize and process them and we we didn’t in a way we didn’t want to distort this event by coming out and
27:07 saying our top three priorities are we what we really want to demonstrate that we’re open and we’re we’re going to be
27:12 gathering that and building that as we go and that and that really was the basis for the structure of our strategic
27:18 approach as well okay let’s move on anna-lysa i think this is probably one for you will environmental
27:23 standards scotland keep individual cases and decisions under scrutiny to identify
27:29 systemic issues with processes that may be affecting nature and pinpoint major
27:34 causes that could cause serious environmental harm that’s from rspb
27:39 scotland for you analisa so ess of course wants to hear about
27:45 individual cases and this will be considered carefully to identify any patterns of wider failure
27:52 and the effectiveness of the law really so we are open to receiving representations about individual cases
28:00 concerning public authorities failure to enforce environmental law
28:05 our plan is to establish processes that enable us to detect whether there are
28:10 systemic patterns here and whether there are concerns to raise about the effectiveness of the law
28:17 itself thank you very much anna-lysa another question here what are the difference
28:24 between differences between how ess will work and the emerging plans for england
28:29 northern ireland and wales that’s from alex mackay government relations manager nature scott and i think i’ll give that
28:36 one to you marie thank you claire and i can see that we’ve got uh representatives from the
28:42 office of environmental protection already on the call so it’s good to see you here today and that really sort of
28:47 um uh sort of confirms that we are working really closely with our colleagues across the other uh with
28:54 other agencies and but we’re the ones that are ahead of the the game in the sense because we’re being established today whereas in
29:01 england uh the office of environmental protection is still going through its final stages because the environment bill hasn’t reached its final stage in
29:08 parliament and while there are lots of similarities besides between ourselves and the other agencies uh if until the
29:15 final uh bill goes through then obviously to establish the the differences but generally we’ve been
29:20 working really closely together the last few months to make sure that we understand each other’s priorities and
29:26 also to understand where we can learn from each other because as we know the environment doesn’t take account of
29:31 boundaries it’s very much a fluid thing and we need to make sure we continue that working arrangement
29:36 thanks very much marie another question here i think probably i’m going to ask you this brendan working as part of the sg team on our part of the setup of ess
29:44 today’s launch is an exciting and important day for scotland’s environment can you say something about what you
29:50 need from others to really deliver on your strategic plan this is from kevin quinlan environment and forestry
29:57 director scottish government brendan if you could uh start with that maybe we’ll ask some others from the panel to jump
30:02 in as well okay of course well thanks for kevin uh for saying that and coming
30:08 up with a question and i think we’d encourage all
30:13 people community groups organizations across scotland to come to us and flag the concerns
30:19 and so that we can help identify the most important issues that we should be
30:24 prioritizing and we’ll be right engaging and working with a range of uh public
30:29 bodies and would also welcome their cooperation investing some time to understand our
30:35 role and their willingness to work with us to find out and implement solutions that will help
30:41 to protect and improve the environment and i guess thirdly is a brand new body
30:47 as we start to develop a three-year longer term strategic plan
30:52 we’ll be looking to gather views and feedback and how we engage cooperate and communicate and report in
30:59 what we do so we’ll be lots of opportunities and we just like people to give us the time and
31:05 and and come to us and engage with us let me ask annalisa have you got
31:10 anything to say about that as well we’ve got the opportunity yes i would add to what brandon said by
31:17 saying that we are new and the challenge for us is to raise
31:23 awareness about the fact that we exist and about what we do so please please
31:29 help us pray in the world we need everybody who is here today to tell the groups i work with that we are
31:35 in business that we are here to listen and look forward to taking up the issues that you ask us to look at
31:42 thanks alisa marie would you like to say something another board member yeah i mean i think just checker the points
31:48 made by analisa and brendan that you know we’re here we want to listen we want to engage we know that it’s a
31:54 complex area so trying to navigate our way through it and identify the key problems and the key issues that we need
32:00 to focus on is our main task in the coming months and but please bring questions to us we want to
32:06 hear from you and engage in the consultation that brendan talked about in terms of our engagement program that
32:12 we’ve got set ahead and maybe some observations from the guys that aren’t on the board johnny maybe you’d like to
32:17 take a point here yes thanks so obviously um brendan referred very clearly to um interaction
32:24 between ess and public agencies i think there’s also a very very clear role for ess and the public agencies to to engage
32:31 with the private sector i.e those who are responsible for a significant amount of land management in scotland
32:38 so that we uh the folk on the ground who are responsible for delivery responsible for
32:44 club compliance can actually understand what’s expected of us uh and i think a lot of that comes
32:49 back to that message i tried to convey earlier about better regulation enabling regulation
32:56 and that partnership approach uh throughout uh and i guess uh going back to kevin’s original question i i would
33:03 really want to see that partnership being developed very fully as ess grows and develops
33:09 with more established bodies such as ourselves as well as the agencies we work with more regularly
33:15 cepa nature scot and not forgetting rpid that’s the rule of payments and inspections division
33:21 thanks johnny would you like to stick your toppings
33:28 worth in on this as well um um i think probably what everybody else has said is really helpful i think
33:34 particularly johnny your point about um actors and how do we enforce regulation
33:40 um on state act i think that’s something that we do need to think about for the future um and then of course community group and
33:47 how will we um enable those less heard voices to bring
33:53 their concerns to the table and let’s make that as easy and straightforward because less head voices are doing lots
34:00 of things they’re very busy it’s not their responsibility to come to you it’s also your responsibility to go to them
34:05 so very much looking forward to working with you to think about how we can um increase accessibility
34:12 okay and deborah to you thanks claire i think um as a fellow
34:17 kind of champion of the environment really we our members and link itself are very much committed to working with
34:23 ess and other organizations right across scotland in order to address the ongoing loss of biodiversity working to restore
34:29 it ensure everyone has access to a healthy environment and that environmental law is effective and applied um effectively
34:36 but we have massive challenges all of us in front of us um in terms of climate change and nature laws and johnny’s
34:42 point really is a key one for us that we if we’re going to solve all of this stuff we really do need to work together
34:47 so it’s the partnership angle that’s really important for us and we can help
34:52 um i think our members will definitely do all they can obviously to help identify the issues be a point of
34:58 contact between ess and members of the public whether they’re communities of place or communities of identity both
35:05 communities are going to be very very important for this and we will we will commit to highlighting what we do well
35:12 and where we need to do better so i think that’s probably the best way we can help ess deliver on the strategic
35:17 plan okay thank you very much deborah another question from mike daniels head of policy and land management john muir
35:23 trust um brendan i think i’ll direct this towards you if that’s okay how can concerns about damage to designated
35:30 sites be reported and what enforcement actions will be in it available in other
35:35 words how do people make representations to ess okay it was a great question to have to
35:42 um sort of set that out and promote that availability we we have a representation
35:48 form which you can get on our website and we’ve actually just been finalizing that in the last few days and getting
35:55 advice from people like shivali and deborah environment link and so that
36:01 should be quite easy to to get hold of and quite easy to fill out and just needs to be sent in to us
36:07 when we get those we’ll we’ll consider these issues and we have to check that there’s a how
36:13 they relate to the law and whether the public a public authority is as a role in it there might be some situations we
36:19 can’t there’s nothing we can do but if if we can identify um areas where there’s there’s a the law’s
36:26 not been effective or not been complied with then then we can certainly uh look
36:31 to investigate that and seek to identify actions that would address the non-compliance or the lack of effectiveness
36:37 um and as previously said we’ll try to resolve that informally with the public authority but we’re we’re perfectly
36:44 prepared to press those home using our informal powers um and we can we can do this by issuing
36:50 compliance notices the i think the the issue perhaps with with with protected sites is
36:57 making that clear link to the role of the public authorities and the legal duties so some of these things will need
37:03 a little bit of um yeah investigation understanding and a
37:09 critical analysis to really nail down where where it is we can act but we’re
37:14 we’re set up and ready to take that on excellent before i go any further i’m
37:20 going to remind you uh there’s a new twitter tag for you all at endstan scott whoever
37:26 that’s at env s-t-a-n-scott and our linkedin environmental standards
37:33 scotland as well if you’re wanting to keep in touch with what’s happening and we surely hope you do right anna-lysa i think i’ll pitch this
37:39 one to you professor elisa morguera professor of global environmental law strathclyde center for environmental law
37:45 and governance blimey that’s a mouthful how does ess plan to engage with human rights in its work and how does it plan
37:52 to contribute to the broader process of human rights leadership in scotland in order to advance environmental standards
37:58 that’s a big question as well thank you elisa annelise thanks elisa uh
38:04 she’s a good friend of mine we’ve known each other for many years good to see you in the audience we are a public body and such we’re
38:11 bound to comply with environmental rights these are enshrined in the law of the country by means of measures
38:17 implementing the orbs convention we are not a judicial body
38:22 but we are bound to provide access to information public participation and access to remedies as prescribed by the
38:29 law so we are building the organization in line with these code principles
38:35 we will make sure that we establish procedures that are fair and transparent and align with environmental rights
38:42 at the same time we will look carefully at what the scottish government will propose on
38:47 human rights during this parliament and we’ll make sure that we hold them to account for complying with any laws that
38:54 the parliament might adopt on this matter okay maybe shabali would like to jump in
38:59 on this as well oh yes thank you
39:04 and first of all thanks to lisa for the question and also for i think particularly her guidance within the
39:10 national task force for human rights leadership and the resultant commitment by the scottish government to incorporate the right to a healthy
39:17 environment with both substantive and procedural elements and a new human rights scotland bill
39:23 and we know how important this right is to enable all our human rights and annalisa has mentioned this but i think
39:28 for those in the audience who don’t know so much about um what this means for for us as uh
39:34 citizens um incorporation of the substantive human right to a healthy environment
39:40 would include the six features recommended by the task force so that’s clean air
39:45 a safe climate access to safe water and adequate sanitation
39:50 healthy and sustainably produced food non-toxic environments in which to live
39:55 work study and play and healthy biodiversity and ecosystems and we know
40:02 of 156 out of 193 united nation member states they’ve already recognized this
40:08 human right to healthy environment and there’s evidence that the incorporation
40:13 of a human right to a healthy environment is associated with improved environmental outcomes
40:19 so this right for the first time will give the public a legal basis to have a
40:25 healthy environment as a standalone human right and place a legal obligation to scottish government to meet
40:31 conditions to comply with this right so absolutely as analysis says we see
40:37 ess as crucial in upholding this substantive right by using its powers as the board have
40:44 already outlined and by doing so it will advance our procedural rights by filling the
40:49 governance gap left by brexit that’s what we hope and as annalisa says this procedural
40:54 right um you know is about incorporating the artist convention which scotland is
41:00 obliged to implement but and i do need to put this fit in
41:06 scotland’s legal system is currently not compliant with the ice convention on access to justice due to the excessive
41:13 costs of environmental litigation and it’s lovely to hear that ess will
41:19 support our procedural right but it can’t alone address the deficits
41:24 in access to justice on the environment and so more does need to be done
41:30 we believe that as well as incorporating the ice convention and the human rights bill we need to review judicial expenses
41:38 so that we can reduce costs and we also think we need to develop a specialist environmental corp
41:45 or tribunal this model will reduce costs and time and increase accessibility by hearing
41:51 environmental cases in one place and increase the expertise and efficacy of judges in interpreting environmental law
41:58 that was a little bit of a lecture but i think the important bit about that is that we hope that the ess will support
42:04 and advocate for legal reforms now that can allow the public to hold the government to account through the
42:11 credible threat of public interest litigation as a last resort to protect the environment so on your own can’t do
42:17 it but hopefully with us supporting you we can advocate for that reform thank you let me bounce that very
42:23 quickly to brendan is that something do you want to have a comment about that off the back of what
42:28 um foreign policy on the hoof but just just a response yeah i mean it’s certainly an area i
42:34 expect our board to be discussing and taking seriously the you know we recognize that barriers to
42:41 um to access to justice on environmental law is is a subset of environmental law
42:47 so it’s something that’s potentially within our remit and uh but it’s it’s slightly tricky territory and and it’s
42:53 one i think we’re going to need to discuss as a board and set a direction following that
42:59 lots of interesting conversations ahead let me ask another question this one’s from annie roberson project officer
43:05 scotland chartered institute of ecology and environmental management she asks
43:10 how will the existence and remit of esf be raised and how will it be made
43:15 accessible to all i think brendan you should answer that one
43:20 well um yeah thanks well i mean we took the decision to do today’s launch event even though we couldn’t
43:26 have a physical event and buy you all a drink um but but you know i’d ask you all to go back
43:32 from this event and uh have a conversation with your colleagues and teams tell them about ess
43:39 you know point them to our website point them to some of our materials if you could invest a little bit of time
43:44 and that would be very helpful that’s that’s probably a key way for getting a message out
43:50 i mean it’s a it’s a fantastic time to be launching this organization as we’ve already said because it’s unprecedented
43:55 levels of interest in the environment and so we’ve already had a lot of interest from
44:01 the media and and i think they’re going to have see pretty interest pretty good coverage
44:06 over the next few days and and you know and that’s before we’ve actually done anything and before we’ve actually sort
44:11 of picked up an issue so i think you know and well you know we are still growing the organization so in a way i i
44:18 i wouldn’t i wouldn’t really want the floodgates to open on monday before we’ve got our full team in place but and
44:25 the other thing we’ll be doing as i said over the next few months we’re not done in determining our
44:30 procedures and our strategic approach we publish an interim strategic plan to
44:35 get us going so that everyone knows how we’re going to operate but we want to come and talk and through a series of events
44:41 to people about our sort of more medium term approach and get any comments on that and refine that
44:48 and then we’ll be putting that to parliament um during 2020 22 as they need to agree and
44:54 approve that so lots of things in mind but um yeah please all go away and tell your friends
45:01 this is the opening salva for a conversation a genuine conversation if i could very briefly ask all the panelists
45:06 here to to comment on that how things will be raised how accessible it will be maybe deborah you could start very
45:12 briefly just give us a comment on that sure i think um annalisa made the point uh really early on actually that the the
45:18 main thing is that um ess needs to be very clearly signposted it needs to be very easy to use it needs to be
45:24 transparent and accessible and i think it’s that accessibility that will be its strength and it’s the fact that people
45:31 and communities feel are and feel able to bring issues to it that that those
45:36 issues can be acted upon and that they can be resolved in a timely way so everyone needs to know exists
45:42 obviously and that it exists to ensure that everyone in scotland can help protect our home the environment
45:49 but and that’s going to require constant communications we we’re making a great start today but it it goes a long way
45:55 beyond today so we need to keep doing that but i think the key key measure for this is that we need to see that ess is
46:02 successful and that it seemed to be working that’s going to be the real measure and that’s going to be what makes it work okay let me get you
46:08 chevalier to say something briefly about that as well no i think i’ve said enough and i agree
46:14 with what debra said what she said thank you okay johnny i don’t say what she said
46:20 no um i think obviously the existence word has been used a
46:26 number of times in the last couple of minutes i think the function word really needs to be spelled out very clearly as
46:32 well you know many organizations exist i think a lot of the time farmers and crafters don’t
46:38 quite appreciate what their function actually is and and how how they are not necessarily
46:44 just there to enforce enforce enforce it is about that piece i keep playing out about engaging
46:51 and thinking about how better we can regulate uh in order to get the outcomes we want enforcement isn’t an outcome um
46:59 and you know the environmental outcomes we actually want require a lot more than just regulation and reinforcement we’re
47:06 all gonna have to think and act differently in other words that’s the point we’ve got an opportunity now to do it marie what’s your point
47:12 yeah i might just agree with others really that you know we’re going to be able to we want to be accessible and
47:18 trusted as an organization and inevitably we’ve got a bit of hype at the moment but we want to maintain that
47:23 and i think our um sort of key task will be to keep a check to make sure that we
47:28 are still accessible and that people understand what we’re doing when the things we’re going to be looking at
47:34 communication strategies are we still reaching the parts we need to reach in the coming months so that’s something
47:40 at the border and what about your analysis i would add that um you know these
47:46 pandemic times have made it more difficult to meet with people but brendon has explained our plan is to go
47:52 out and engage with our stakeholders but um what we have proposed is out there now
47:59 take a look and get in touch if there are suggestions on things that we you think we may do to become even more
48:06 accessible please let us know because we’re open to suggestions excellent now um there’s a question i
48:12 suppose you know i’ve seen this one here and it’s one that of course i thought because the word independent
48:18 is bandied about quite a lot about what you guys what this body will do so um
48:23 let me ask you brendan and if anyone else wants to jump in as well from the board how independent will ess be from
48:30 government brendan yeah i am well
48:35 totally independent we’ve we’ve left the mothership where we’re um
48:41 so i i mean ministers have no role in determining the the issues that we look at or our processes and we actually have
48:49 as i said earlier we have to submit our strategic plan to parliament
48:54 and they have to approve that so that that’s where that’s where we’re accountable and in fact ministers and
48:59 scottish government are a body that we could take action against under our jurisdiction so it’s very important that
49:05 we can’t on the one hand to be the the regulate you know having this oversight role and then the other there’s a back
49:12 channel that they they they’re able to sort of limit what we can do so and we’ve you know anyone really wants to
49:18 delve into that there’s a framework document where we’ve mapped all of this out and that and that’s that’s a pretty
49:24 dry reading but it’s the kind of place where all of this has been thought through in detail and that’s available
49:29 on our website but yeah i know i can absolutely assure you even our board members and our chairman
49:35 that that their appointments confirmed by the the the parliament um and that
49:40 that’s so i mean it’s noticeable some of the issues that have been discussed around the environment bill
49:47 uh they’re really looking in england to adopt similar approaches to the to the approach that we have in scotland
49:54 you know the i think they recognize that we we have quite a good job has been done in establishing a framework that
50:00 can be seen to be independent i think a good time for just a couple more questions but um let’s what about
50:05 this one here that i’ve got um are you going to be liaising directly with the eu and european environment agency again
50:13 brendan that’s probably one for you but if anyone else from the board wants to pick that up that’s cool well actually we will we will we’ve
50:19 we’ve picked up the that relationship and in fact one of our board members is not on the court today paul
50:25 works in the in the european commission in in the environment area and so we’ve
50:30 got we’ve got various channels but no i mean they they continue to fulfill this role across the rest of europe and in
50:37 fact they’re they’re they’re interested in our approach a more local approach
50:42 and more sort of boots on the ground approach direct uh within the country connections and that
50:48 that may be the way the eu goes who knows but most certainly we will be keeping close links monitoring their
50:54 policy developments and looking at the types of issues that they identify and
51:00 as i said it’s already been had an impact on on our the development of our procedures you know that the eu
51:07 over the years they’ve been doing this role i’ve identified the benef benefits of having having a strong monitoring and
51:12 evaluation and having a proactive approach to identify the issues so that so that’s why we’ve come up with this
51:18 blended approach that’s both representations and and uh investing significant resource in our monitoring
51:24 and evaluation we’ve got loads of questions here maybe maybe just one more i’m just struggling
51:29 to pick which one but um maybe this one what’s going to be your role in relation to climate change
51:38 do you want me to pick that one up or anyone else who wants to pick it up you know it would be interesting
51:44 well i’ll give it a stir but not say too much then yeah
51:49 we ourselves weren’t initially sure i mean the early the early stages of developing the organization the
51:55 legislation initially looked like it would rule out climate change but but actually no it’s it’s the climate change
52:01 legislation is very much within the scope of the function of of of environmental standards scotland so
52:08 yeah we will be looking at that we will be receiving representations on that and we will look be looking at the
52:13 performance of public bodies and you know are they doing what they’re fulfilling their duties and and the
52:19 other thing i think i’ve already mentioned we’ve already had some really useful discussions with the climate change uh committee and they have a role
52:26 to advise ministers but they have no enforcement or regulatory powers and so
52:32 it’s quite likely we’ll we’ll be working hand-in-hand with them feeding off their analysis and information and using that
52:40 to inform the sorts of issues we might investigate i don’t know if anyone else wants to jump in anna-lysa do you or marie
52:49 yes very briefly we have a broader emit climate change is clearly
52:56 an issue that we will be looking at as well as many others um but as an expert
53:03 in climate change law you can imagine that we will be keeping our eyes out and open because there are
53:10 a number of areas of concern and we will be of course be listening to what the
53:15 stakeholders have to say and their concerns i have to raise about the enforcement of climate change law
53:20 specifically okay i think we’re probably getting out of time now we are it’s just to say that
53:26 if we didn’t get to your specific question in this session we’re very happy to make sure it reaches the guys at ess team and they can respond to you
53:34 uh it isn’t possible to get through all these points but we hope you will allow us to forward your comments and quiz in
53:39 order to address anything that we haven’t been able to cover today this is just a hello as we said let me thank
53:45 each and every one of our distinguished panel members and of course jim martin and brendan callan from ess thanks to
53:50 you too our audience who we are hopeful are going to go away feeling energized about our shared goals and challenges if
53:58 you need any more information that bible our document can be accessed on the ess
54:03 website the ess team are very happy to talk to you in more detail you can contact them inquiries at environmental
54:10 standards dot scott more info on the website www.environmentalstandards.scott
54:17 linkedin environmental standards scotland and at n stan scott twitter
54:23 handle this is the beginning of a journey for us all we’re addressing the most pressing issue of our times the
54:29 environment and biodiversity challenges and eas is committed to doing all it can
54:35 to ensure an environmentally safe and healthy future for our dear green part
54:41 of the planet help us to shape and grow that ambition be a partner in that with us keep your conversations and
54:47 observations coming we need your input we are experts in the field we’re also learning how to do things better with
54:54 your help that will make ess relevant to all of our citizens and organizations in
54:59 scotland as you might know by now we’re very excited about this we’re committed to championing safe and efficient
55:05 implementation of environmental law cop26 is going to come and go we’re here
55:11 for the duration a final reminder that interim strategy document for environmental standards
55:16 scotland can be found or viewed and downloaded from the website environmental standards scott
55:22 that’s a wrap just let me wish you a very happy remainder of friday and a good weekend when it comes bye for now
55:31 thank you claire